“Shhhh-it!”: Idolator’s Super-Secret Music Interview Series Looks Heavenward

Lucas Jensen | October 16, 2008 10:00 am

Every week, in the “Shhhh-it!” AnonIMous Super-Secret Music-Biz Interview Series (S-I!AS-SM-BIS for, uh, short) we interview a grizzled music industry veteran via the J. Alfred Prufrock-like sinuousness of instant messaging. We talk about the person’s job, the state of the industry, and whatever else comes to mind. This week, we bring you Christian indie artist/label owner Jed_Dawn. Jed_Dawn has been a fan of Christian indie music for some time and has toiled away as a Christian indie artist and label owner, though he typically targets the secular indie crowd more so than the Christian indie rock world in his marketing, for fear of being ghettoized or ostracized by either group. During this interview we discuss this, Christian rock as rebellion, Tooth and Nail Records, and which Christian artists deserve more attention. We also discover that record execs who say they walk with Jesus are as sleazy as any others:

StumpyPete1975: you would think…being Christian and all…it would be a lot nicer Jed_Dawn: yeah but it isn’t really like that Jed_Dawn: just cause you’re a christian you shouldn’t assume that everyone works with you is too Jed_Dawn: and business is business StumpyPete1975: so ultimately it ends up being like the same ol’ music biz? Jed_Dawn: yeah exactly but with more chance that the people that are involved have no clue what they are getting into cause they assume that christians are going to be different Jed_Dawn: I mean, I would assume that StumpyPete1975: I would assume it would be like Chik Fil-A StumpyPete1975: better-tasting, cleaner, with nicer service…not open on Sunday

The entire interview after the clickthrough!

StumpyPete1975: so you run a record label and are an artist yourself, correct? Jed_Dawn: yeah StumpyPete1975: pretty indie Jed_Dawn: yeah StumpyPete1975: and you self-identify as a Christian? Jed_Dawn: yes StumpyPete1975: I guess I should rephrase that StumpyPete1975: do you self-identify as a Christian artist or a Christian label? Jed_Dawn: No that is kind of a mess and comes with lots of baggage StumpyPete1975: really? StumpyPete1975: I’ve heard this before from other Christian artists… StumpyPete1975: what kind of baggage? Jed_Dawn: It takes your artistry down a couple notches on both sides StumpyPete1975: how do you mean? Jed_Dawn: well on the indie side of things you will never get any attention for anything but that Jed_Dawn: and on the christian side if you’re not all about preaching you don’t really fit in there either StumpyPete1975: wow StumpyPete1975: so being evangelical is a big part of the Christian indie scene? Jed_Dawn: not in the indie scene i think if anything people try to get away from that StumpyPete1975: ah, but CCM? Jed_Dawn: yeah the rest of the industry StumpyPete1975: not to get too far afield, but what’s your take on most Christian rock? Jed_Dawn: some of it is pretty bad but there is a lot of stuff that doesn’t get enough credit Jed_Dawn: most people start writing it off the second they hear Jesus or anything of that nature StumpyPete1975: is that one of the frustrations you find as a Christian artist? StumpyPete1975: that it is dismissed out of hand? Jed_Dawn: yeah that happens more then you might think StumpyPete1975: I’m sure Jed_Dawn: half the time you read reviews you see someone’s commentary on christianity for 3/4th of the article and maybe what it sounds like for the last sentence Jed_Dawn: sufjan got that a lot at first StumpyPete1975: but by singing explicitly about Christ StumpyPete1975: don’t you sorta ask for it, too? Jed_Dawn: i can’t tell you how many reviews danielson got for it too Jed_Dawn: i don’t know when some other band writes a song about something that has been a part of their life they usually don’t get the guff StumpyPete1975: true StumpyPete1975: but one thing that bugs me, I guess, about a lot of CCM Jed_Dawn: some 30 year old guy can write as many songs as he wants about high school and nobody cares StumpyPete1975: I detect frustration and perhaps anger Jed_Dawn: haha StumpyPete1975: it’s tough, not being able to stay true to oneself in any way Jed_Dawn: seriously StumpyPete1975: one thing that bugs me about CCM (and is a reason I like, say, Danielson or Sufjan or Starflyer 59) is that there are so many ways to talk about God or Christ, right? StumpyPete1975: and yet it’s always so…banal StumpyPete1975: it’s always you showed me the light StumpyPete1975: I lift up my hands StumpyPete1975: etc. etc. etc. StumpyPete1975: when you flip through the stations, man…you can spot it within 5 seconds StumpyPete1975: (Also, there is never any bass in CCM music, it seems) StumpyPete1975: (so treble-y) Jed_Dawn: well listen to any song about something specific your going to find the same things StumpyPete1975: sure StumpyPete1975: but is God specific? StumpyPete1975: as the Creator of the universe, I’d think there would be more ways to sing about Him Jed_Dawn: haha i suppose so Jed_Dawn: like i said not a lot of the industry is really that good Jed_Dawn: a lot of labels kind of push bands to do that kind of thing Jed_Dawn: they want them to to fit into that cookie cutter box StumpyPete1975: I have heard that Christian majors are as bad as regular major labels Jed_Dawn: for the most part they are all owned or distributed by all the same people Jed_Dawn: so the same sleaziness StumpyPete1975: does Christian indie have a punk ethos? StumpyPete1975: are they house shows and a rebellious spirit? StumpyPete1975: I’ve detected that before, like, there is an infrastructure for touring, playing, etc. Jed_Dawn: yeah there is a lot of similar stuff Jed_Dawn: it just more church basements then vfw halls Jed_Dawn: there is a lot of it that has that diy aspect though too Jed_Dawn: i can’t tell you how many times i saw danielson and starflyer in a church basement StumpyPete1975: that’s kinda rad StumpyPete1975: what are the kids rebelling against? StumpyPete1975: if it has that same spirit Jed_Dawn: there is still that element of rebelling against your parents cause most parents still don’t get it Jed_Dawn: be it christian loud music or secular loud music they still don’t like it StumpyPete1975: I can see that StumpyPete1975: do you remember that King of the Hill about it? Jed_Dawn: i don’t think i ever saw that StumpyPete1975: where Bobby Hill ran back to his room and slammed the door, saying “You guys just don’t understand how I feel about Jesus!” StumpyPete1975: it was a good one StumpyPete1975: Hank’s quote at the end, whilst talking to a Christian rap-rocker was, “Son, don’t you understand you’re not making Christianity any better…you’re just making rock and roll worse?” StumpyPete1975: your response to that sentiment? Jed_Dawn: oh man that is really true sometimes Jed_Dawn: i go to one of the big christian festivals almost every year and it has just gotten more and more hardcore Jed_Dawn: now it is almost unbearable StumpyPete1975: hardcore how? Jed_Dawn: like chugga chugga bad metal hardcore Jed_Dawn: there are so many of those bands in the scene Jed_Dawn: i am really glad that scene hasn’t gotten more national attention cause it would just keep giving the good stuff a worse name StumpyPete1975: one criticism I have often heard from snooty indie types: StumpyPete1975: Christian indie is just very derivative…your response? Jed_Dawn: what isn’t these days Jed_Dawn: every new band seems to be a derivative of broken arcade weekend StumpyPete1975: good point StumpyPete1975: I often feel that these indie types are remarkably close-minded and hypocritical for a vast majority of them being supposed liberals Jed_Dawn: oh yeah and there are a lot of people with them Jed_Dawn: i am surprised there hasn’t been some christian indie obama comp too Jed_Dawn: Jed_Dawn: haha StumpyPete1975: brilliant idea with three weeks to go! StumpyPete1975: do you think most Christian indie folks are fairly liberal politically? Jed_Dawn: no i don’t think so Jed_Dawn: like the rest of the country it is pretty divided StumpyPete1975: hmm StumpyPete1975: do you think it is weird, though, that you have to remain in hiding in a way? StumpyPete1975: when you live in a country that is what? 80% Christian? StumpyPete1975: is it that bad? Jed_Dawn: i don’t mean to make it sound like we are martyrs Jed_Dawn: i just wish it was more of a level playing field Jed_Dawn: that you weren’t judged by being a Christian alone StumpyPete1975: right StumpyPete1975: but, like I said, something that turns me off is that a lot of Christian stuff is ONLY about God StumpyPete1975: like, there is nothing else ever brought into it StumpyPete1975: I like the Sufjan and U2 models StumpyPete1975: some God, some other things StumpyPete1975: but that’s because I am a heathen StumpyPete1975: (but an open-minded one) Jed_Dawn: i wouldn’t worry about the heathen part Jed_Dawn: a lot of christian bands have skeletons in the closets they don’t want talked about Jed_Dawn: just like everyone else StumpyPete1975: oooh StumpyPete1975: like what?! StumpyPete1975: dish dish dish Jed_Dawn: haha man i am not sure i can go on the record about that StumpyPete1975: aw man Jed_Dawn: i can say i have known of a few bands with some gambling problems StumpyPete1975: wow StumpyPete1975: what about homosexuality? StumpyPete1975: controversial in Christian indie? StumpyPete1975: something to be kept a secret? Jed_Dawn: i can’t really say i know much about that Jed_Dawn: i know that the CCM crowd really freaked out over Ray Boltz StumpyPete1975: wow StumpyPete1975: that, I bet, was tough StumpyPete1975: do you think Christian indie has a wider tent? StumpyPete1975: more inclusive, because of that rebellious edge? Jed_Dawn: yeah i think so Jed_Dawn: i know i wouldn’t think any less of a band if they came out of the closet Jed_Dawn: you can’t change the climate of the country when it comes to things like that StumpyPete1975: what’s your biggest frustration besides being caught in the middle between the indie kids and the Christian kids? Jed_Dawn: i think everything else that goes for the rest of the industry Jed_Dawn: its not like anybody is selling records these days StumpyPete1975: and Christian music has been hurt, too, correct? Jed_Dawn: yeah just cause you like Jesus doesn’t mean you don’t know what a torrent is StumpyPete1975: haha StumpyPete1975: so…money in Christian rock? Jed_Dawn: bands can do really well Jed_Dawn: i was a promoter when I was in high school and little naive about every thing Jed_Dawn: bands that we would bring in would have these giant guarantees Jed_Dawn: sometimes we would have like 20 kids out and they would want like 1,000 bucks StumpyPete1975: wow Jed_Dawn: yeah looking back at it now the booking agents knew we had no idea what we were doing and just took advantage of it Jed_Dawn: but the whole scene is like that StumpyPete1975: really? StumpyPete1975: you would think…being Christian and all…it would be a lot nicer Jed_Dawn: yeah but it isn’t really like that Jed_Dawn: just cause you’re a christian you shouldn’t assume that everyone works with you is too Jed_Dawn: and business is business StumpyPete1975: so ultimately it ends up being like the same ol’ music biz? Jed_Dawn: yeah exactly but with more chance that the people that are involved have no clue what they are getting into cause they assume that christians are going to be different Jed_Dawn: I mean, I would assume that StumpyPete1975: I would assume it would be like Chik Fil-A StumpyPete1975: better-tasting, cleaner, with nicer service…not open on Sunday Jed_Dawn: i know all sorts of bands that have had that come back to bite them in the ass when it comes to their contracts Jed_Dawn: haha StumpyPete1975: oh yeah? StumpyPete1975: contracts? Jed_Dawn: yeah most of those companies love to lock in the bands in for at least 5 records Jed_Dawn: its not like your friendly indie 50/50 split for an album or two Jed_Dawn: its like the 18 page contract with the 5 page glossary of terms StumpyPete1975: holy crap! StumpyPete1975: so it’s really old-school industry StumpyPete1975: do you think a lot of these people come from Nashville? StumpyPete1975: that world? Jed_Dawn: yeah a lot of them do StumpyPete1975: I’ve heard that CCM and Country are like this StumpyPete1975: imagine me doing that StumpyPete1975: “like this” Jed_Dawn: i know a lot of the bands that don’t even have industry lawyers look at it StumpyPete1975: oh wow StumpyPete1975: they are naive? Jed_Dawn: and a regular lawyer looks at that kind of contract and goes this all looks good Jed_Dawn: cause they have no idea what they are looking at StumpyPete1975: and…is it bad karma to sue a Christian label? StumpyPete1975: o you get blackballed? Jed_Dawn: haha Jed_Dawn: i don’t know if i would go that far StumpyPete1975: I knew someone on a very prominent label StumpyPete1975: and they had a miserable time StumpyPete1975: Tooth and Nail Jed_Dawn: i know some christians that would have a problem with doing suing Jed_Dawn: oh man StumpyPete1975: when this band left [Tooth and Nail], it was assumed they weren’t Christian anymore Jed_Dawn: really? Jed_Dawn: thats crazy StumpyPete1975: yeah, but they were the same Jed_Dawn: people get all sorts of those kind of assumptions when you get faith involved StumpyPete1975: there are slimy people everywhere! Jed_Dawn: haha Jed_Dawn: exactly Jed_Dawn: and you can change your mind at any time Jed_Dawn: it isn’t like you should be set in stone in forever for something you did when your 18 and sign a contract for the next 5 records you make Jed_Dawn: that could be 10 – 15 years of your life StumpyPete1975: are these the major labels’ CCM divisions or major Christian indies? StumpyPete1975: that do these five year contracts? Jed_Dawn: 5 album contracts StumpyPete1975: yeah StumpyPete1975: sorry! Jed_Dawn: it would be better to be 5 years StumpyPete1975: sure StumpyPete1975: two albums or so Jed_Dawn: but yeah i have seen them by the big labels and the indies StumpyPete1975: and you think that they use their faith as a facade to get away with sleazy deals? Jed_Dawn: no i wouldn’t say that Jed_Dawn: they just think its business and what you do StumpyPete1975: aha Jed_Dawn: i think they are kind of naive in that way too StumpyPete1975: I had one more question Jed_Dawn: sure StumpyPete1975: Sufjan StumpyPete1975: has he opened doors for Christian indie artists? StumpyPete1975: he has pretty broad acceptance Jed_Dawn: i don’t think it started with Sufjan Jed_Dawn: i would trace it farther back to David Bazan and Pedro the Lion StumpyPete1975: aha StumpyPete1975: (I never really liked them, so…) Jed_Dawn: he was really the first one that started to push me as far as a christian artist StumpyPete1975: I’ve heard that from people before StumpyPete1975: but he was never as big as Sufjan is, right? StumpyPete1975: I mean, Sufjan’s in Entertainment Weekly and Rolling Stone profiles StumpyPete1975: or at least he was a few years ago Jed_Dawn: yeah I think Sufjan last serveral record have done really well Jed_Dawn: the guy needs to get out some more states though StumpyPete1975: but do you think him and Bazan help with mainstream acceptance of “good” indie artists? StumpyPete1975: “good” christian artists, rather? Jed_Dawn: yeah i think it gives you something to point towards that you can do something special Jed_Dawn: and that theirs is good art and something to aspire to StumpyPete1975: do you think the mainstream, though, has only so much room for so many Christian artists? Jed_Dawn: yeah as long as they seem them as only christian artists StumpyPete1975: interesting StumpyPete1975: like tokenism Jed_Dawn: yeah Jed_Dawn: it really hasn’t hurt switchfoot though StumpyPete1975: oof StumpyPete1975: what did you used to be into? Jed_Dawn: i loved north to the future StumpyPete1975: oh yeah Jed_Dawn: i was pretty naive in high school when i got into that stuff Jed_Dawn: i loved mxpx and stuff like that Jed_Dawn: ska StumpyPete1975: five iron frenzy! Jed_Dawn: it wasn’t until i heard mineral, sunny day and lifetime that i kind of got out of that ghetto StumpyPete1975: oh yeah Jed_Dawn: I loved those bands StumpyPete1975: your thoughts on Tooth and Nail? Jed_Dawn: they used to be this really cool super artsy label Jed_Dawn: when i first got into I was really into everything they did Jed_Dawn: even looking back at the early days are still pretty awesome as far as the bands Jed_Dawn: i bet a lot of those bands had they not been on tooth and nail wouldn’t have sold nearly as many copies Jed_Dawn: but i don’t really know when it switched Jed_Dawn: every band is some form pleasant acceptable emo/screamo that makes me want to jab pencils in my ear Jed_Dawn: or like terrible chugga screaming metal Jed_Dawn: there is a few exceptions like mewithoutyou and starflyer Jed_Dawn: don’t even get me started on mewithoutyou Jed_Dawn: most underrated band cause they are christians out there StumpyPete1975: really?! StumpyPete1975: bold statement Jed_Dawn: i would make it anytime Jed_Dawn: some of the best people i know make some of the best artistic music in the christian scene and they get no recognition because of it Jed_Dawn: if they were on a big indie they would be getting written up in magnet and paste and all those places StumpyPete1975: hmm Jed_Dawn: but because they have tooth and nail as their label they get stuck with hm and ccm StumpyPete1975: paste has some christian origins Jed_Dawn: yeah and they are a little hard for that magazine Jed_Dawn: but even still you understand what i am getting at StumpyPete1975: oh yeah Jed_Dawn: the sad thing is most of the christian labels won’t even work their bands to that kind of magazine Jed_Dawn: they are happy with just keeping it all in the christian scene StumpyPete1975: wow StumpyPete1975: seems near-sighted Jed_Dawn: yeah it is kind of rough cause a lot of bands deserve it StumpyPete1975: who else? Jed_Dawn: anathallo Jed_Dawn: but i think they are getting there Jed_Dawn: i think all of chris staples stuff from 238 and discover america too were good and have never gotten much attention Jed_Dawn: there was this band called the billions too StumpyPete1975: you remember frank lenz? StumpyPete1975: love that guy Jed_Dawn: yeah Jed_Dawn: did you ever hear fold zandura? StumpyPete1975: yeah Jed_Dawn: it was him and one of the guys from switchfoot StumpyPete1975: oh yeah? StumpyPete1975: what about Paramore? StumpyPete1975: are they God Squad? Jed_Dawn: oh yeah are they christian? Jed_Dawn: not sure Jed_Dawn: i don’t even know StumpyPete1975: I assume that everyone is until I’m totally sure Jed_Dawn: heheh StumpyPete1975: switchfoot Jed_Dawn: yeah if they have that sheen and sparkly teeth they might be Jed_Dawn: you Christians have really good teeth Jed_Dawn: as far as i know Jed_Dawn: 29 years and nothing wrong with mine

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