“Shhhh-it!”: Idolator’s Super-Secret Music Interview Series Heads Into The Studio

Every week in the “Shhhh-it!” AnonIMous Super-Secret Music-Biz Interview Series (S-I!AS-SM-BIS for, uh, short) we interview a grizzled music industry veteran via the tumbling word parade of instant messaging software. We talk about the person’s job, the state of the industry, and whatever else comes to mind. This week, we spoke with Joe The Engineer, who has worked as an assistant engineer for five years at a major NYC studio. Joe’s done some rock sessions, but most of the artists he deals with are big-time pop, hip-hop, and R&B acts–artists that sell lots of records, and artists that we all know. As an engineer, he has a unique perspective on the current recording processes, whether big studios and producers are worth it, and whether pop stars are really as unimportant to the final recorded product as we think they are:

StumpyPete1975: today’s pop stars StumpyPete1975: I think there’s the impression that they just show up for a day or two StumpyPete1975: lay down some vocal tracks StumpyPete1975: and then it’s autotune away StumpyPete1975: true? JoeTheEngineer: right JoeTheEngineer: well, most pop artists don’t write their own stuff JoeTheEngineer: so they come in and I play them a reference, which the writer laid down with all the vocal parts JoeTheEngineer: then the artist goes piece by piece re-singing whats already on tape StumpyPete1975: are you serious? StumpyPete1975: so it’s like Pop Star Hero? JoeTheEngineer: yeah JoeTheEngineer: I mean depending on the artist sure JoeTheEngineer: but this is common JoeTheEngineer: I’ve certainly seen a few big ones that were spoon fed all the lines they sang

The whole thing after the jump!

StumpyPete1975: you’re an assistant engineer, correct? JoeTheEngineer: right, but as a senior assistant, I end up doing quite a bit of engineering as well StumpyPete1975: cool StumpyPete1975: and y’all work with some big-time artists JoeTheEngineer: yeah, I would say just about any top hip hop artist you can think of has been through here StumpyPete1975: wow JoeTheEngineer: as well as a slew of pop and R&B StumpyPete1975: so not small-timers StumpyPete1975: people we’ve all heard of JoeTheEngineer: definitely StumpyPete1975: what’s your book rate there? JoeTheEngineer: most rooms are in the low $200s/hour StumpyPete1975: wow StumpyPete1975: and that’s just room rental, right? JoeTheEngineer: right StumpyPete1975: so engineers are more? JoeTheEngineer: yeah, many bring their own engineers JoeTheEngineer: but if they need one, the studio provides and charges extra StumpyPete1975: wow StumpyPete1975: how much do engineers make an hour? JoeTheEngineer: for recording, it ranges from $30/hour to $75/hour StumpyPete1975: wow JoeTheEngineer: for mixing, guys get from $1000 to 3 or 4 per mix JoeTheEngineer: 3 or 4 being the top in the business StumpyPete1975: and then producers get their own cuts, which I know are not set in stone JoeTheEngineer: right JoeTheEngineer: and has greatly changed with the onset of urban music and their version of “producer” StumpyPete1975: yeah StumpyPete1975: what makes it different than say the rock producer? JoeTheEngineer: well, just that most rock producers don’t get writing credits for what they work on JoeTheEngineer: so their fee and any royalties they can get on the album is all they get JoeTheEngineer: whereas most hip-hip/R&B producers are taking a writing credit for providing beats StumpyPete1975: do you think they deserve it? JoeTheEngineer: yeah sure, if they provided some composition, they should get their percentage StumpyPete1975: now I’ve always functioned under the assumption that with modern pop and R&B and hip-hop StumpyPete1975: not a lot of actual old-school engineering goes on StumpyPete1975: the producer shows up with tracks and stuff StumpyPete1975: and they just lay stuff on top of it StumpyPete1975: that’s a simplification, of course, but how much engineering do you do? JoeTheEngineer: well, it depends quite a bit on the type of session, which I would say is either (in urban music) tracking vocals, tracking beats, or mixing JoeTheEngineer: mostly when people track vocals nowadays, they just record to an instrumental of a beat that someone gave to them StumpyPete1975: really? StumpyPete1975: and then what happens? StumpyPete1975: how do you build a track from that? JoeTheEngineer: well, when it comes time to mix, the mix engineer now has the headache of getting the multitrack from the producer and combining it with the vocal from the artist JoeTheEngineer: which is 99.9999 percent of the time all done digitally now StumpyPete1975: it’s funny how quickly things moved digital StumpyPete1975: ten years ago analog still ruled the day! JoeTheEngineer: true JoeTheEngineer: and even the old timers who hated Pro Tools, have basically come around now StumpyPete1975: yeah StumpyPete1975: do you find that there is a lot less artistry now in the digital world? StumpyPete1975: I think the common protools complaint is that things are fixed that should have been laid down right the first time JoeTheEngineer: right JoeTheEngineer: certainly it requires less performance skills JoeTheEngineer: a session guitarist now is a lot different then a session guitarist in the 70’s JoeTheEngineer: and the thing is, now that artists are gaining knowledge about digital recording, they know what can be done JoeTheEngineer: so instead of trying a take again, they just ask you to edit or tune it or whatever StumpyPete1975: “fix it in the mix” right? JoeTheEngineer: exactly StumpyPete1975: I just recorded an all analog record and man StumpyPete1975: it pushed us StumpyPete1975: my drumming is very very simple compared to what I would normally do StumpyPete1975: its tough! StumpyPete1975: but ultimately I like it way better JoeTheEngineer: yeah, it forces decision making StumpyPete1975: I was gonna ask StumpyPete1975: have you ever had to fix a track that was just horrid? JoeTheEngineer: sure StumpyPete1975: what do you do in that situation? JoeTheEngineer: I mean, with a bad performance, you are usually talking about a couple things JoeTheEngineer: timing, pitch, or just plain not keeping up with the part JoeTheEngineer: for timing, if you have a good ear for feel, you should be able to edit it JoeTheEngineer: for pitch there is of course Autotune (and now Melodyne and Waves Tune) that pitch correct, not always bulletproof though JoeTheEngineer: if they simply cannot record the part through the song, you hope to find a good snippet and loop it throughout StumpyPete1975: wow StumpyPete1975: I keep saying wow JoeTheEngineer: If they can’t get through, rappers and singers often punch quite a bit StumpyPete1975: well, that’s okay StumpyPete1975: rock is all punching, right? JoeTheEngineer: sometimes StumpyPete1975: sometimes? JoeTheEngineer: not when they are punching every word though! StumpyPete1975: oh god JoeTheEngineer: yeah, a few punches is always cool StumpyPete1975: I’ve heard that modern rock is the same way these days StumpyPete1975: autotune and crazy punching StumpyPete1975: how about Sound Replacer? JoeTheEngineer: Sound Replacer is a pretty hip plug in that (like everything really) can be abused StumpyPete1975: see, in hip-hop, I think it would be totally great StumpyPete1975: come up with new sounds JoeTheEngineer: yeah JoeTheEngineer: well in hip hop most drums are done as MIDI StumpyPete1975: oh cool JoeTheEngineer: so to change the sounds, producers can just have their MIDI data play a different drum sample StumpyPete1975: getting back to the producer thing StumpyPete1975: have you encountered any who were really hard to work with? StumpyPete1975: where you just felt like they didn’t know what they were doing? JoeTheEngineer: oh yes JoeTheEngineer: haha StumpyPete1975: what’s the worst experience you ever had? JoeTheEngineer: oh jeez JoeTheEngineer: I mean certainly having a gun waved around the room was unpleasant JoeTheEngineer: or are we talking musically? StumpyPete1975: um StumpyPete1975: I meant whatever StumpyPete1975: certainly a gun counts! JoeTheEngineer: yeah, seen a few pistols in the studio JoeTheEngineer: which was a first for me StumpyPete1975: why was the gun being waved around? JoeTheEngineer: Somewhat for fun I suppose StumpyPete1975: haha…fun for everyone! JoeTheEngineer: really feeling the song StumpyPete1975: musically, what’s your worst experience with a producer or an artist? JoeTheEngineer: musically, probably when an artist was so far stoned that they kept telling me there was something wrong with the song JoeTheEngineer: but couldn’t say what JoeTheEngineer: but was basically blaming me JoeTheEngineer: very awkward and confusing StumpyPete1975: what do you do? StumpyPete1975: I mean, they’re paying you… JoeTheEngineer: bear with them, try to understand JoeTheEngineer: and smile StumpyPete1975: today’s pop stars StumpyPete1975: I think there’s the impression that they just show up for a day or two StumpyPete1975: lay down some vocal tracks StumpyPete1975: and then it’s autotune away StumpyPete1975: true? JoeTheEngineer: right JoeTheEngineer: well, most pop artists don’t write their own stuff JoeTheEngineer: so they come in and I play them a reference, which the writer laid down with all the vocal parts JoeTheEngineer: then the artist goes piece by piece re-singing whats already on tape StumpyPete1975: are you serious? StumpyPete1975: so it’s like Pop Star Hero? JoeTheEngineer: yeah JoeTheEngineer: I mean depending on the artist sure JoeTheEngineer: but this is common JoeTheEngineer: I’ve certainly seen a few big ones that were spoon fed all the lines they sang StumpyPete1975: it’s not surprising, but it is, you know? StumpyPete1975: it’s weird to hear your fears confirmed JoeTheEngineer: heh JoeTheEngineer: yeah JoeTheEngineer: I was shocked the first few times, now I’m already jaded and its only been 4 years! JoeTheEngineer: haha StumpyPete1975: what has changed in the last 4 years? StumpyPete1975: obviously, with the economy being pretty crappy JoeTheEngineer: well, a bunch of the biggest studios in the city have closed JoeTheEngineer: I’ve heard that JoeTheEngineer: The Hit Factory, Sony Music Studios, Battery StumpyPete1975: oof StumpyPete1975: why did they close? StumpyPete1975: session prices too high? JoeTheEngineer: well, there is the never ending quest for labels to find cheaper recording JoeTheEngineer: there is the stupid price for real estate in midtown manhattan JoeTheEngineer: (where all those studios were) JoeTheEngineer: and the enormous overhead of the recording equipment JoeTheEngineer: combined with the fact that a lot of popular music today does not necessitate a big room StumpyPete1975: yeah StumpyPete1975: I wonder if a lot of hip-hop could be recorded anywhere! StumpyPete1975: home StumpyPete1975: in a living room, etc. StumpyPete1975: if it’s midi and sound replacer et al. JoeTheEngineer: it can, and is JoeTheEngineer: and that has hurt business JoeTheEngineer: absolutely JoeTheEngineer: you can buy a set up now that would run you 5 grand tops that you could record vocals for an entire hip hop record on JoeTheEngineer: and when you compare that to 5 grand getting you 3 days of studio time StumpyPete1975: yeah StumpyPete1975: but is there a place for big studios? StumpyPete1975: I still tend to think there is StumpyPete1975: home recorded digital stuff can sound like just that JoeTheEngineer: I mean, rock/jazz/country/classical and more organic pop and R&B definitely benefit from a classic, big studio JoeTheEngineer: so there will always be places to record that stuff JoeTheEngineer: Its just owning a big studio right now is finnancial liability StumpyPete1975: I worry it’s a dying art StumpyPete1975: studio stuff StumpyPete1975: that in a world with no CD sales StumpyPete1975: nobody will pay for big-sounding records StumpyPete1975: and it’s still great to hear a huge-sounding record, in my book JoeTheEngineer: that is a concern for us all the time JoeTheEngineer: absolutely JoeTheEngineer: I wonder how much the public knows the necessity of the studio though JoeTheEngineer: I’m not sure if they connect what they are hearing, to the building it was made in JoeTheEngineer: obviously you have some experience in the studio so you know StumpyPete1975: yeah StumpyPete1975: I’m surprised by how little everyone, from listeners to critics, knows about the studio process StumpyPete1975: I see critics make some of the most ridiculous statements about how something is recorded JoeTheEngineer: even worse JoeTheEngineer: the labels are often completely clueless about the studio process JoeTheEngineer: which is amazing, because they are the ones who pay us StumpyPete1975: yeah StumpyPete1975: but who ever said that labels were good businesspeople who knew anything about anything? JoeTheEngineer: true JoeTheEngineer: ha StumpyPete1975: specifically related to hip-hop and pop StumpyPete1975: what have you seen in the last 5 years StumpyPete1975: in terms of changes to what you do? StumpyPete1975: anything else besides money? attitude? expectations? JoeTheEngineer: hmm JoeTheEngineer: I think hip hop artists have warmed up greatly in the past few years to crossing over to the pop world JoeTheEngineer: so you get some requests from rappers that you just never heard before JoeTheEngineer: like “Throw some autotune on so it sounds like T-Pain” StumpyPete1975: haha JoeTheEngineer: or “Let’s go to the bridge” StumpyPete1975: wow JoeTheEngineer: I’m like “Bridge, this is a four bar loop!” StumpyPete1975: but you think they see that pop success as the next step StumpyPete1975: it’s no longer just being successful hip-hop artists? JoeTheEngineer: when it comes down to it, a lot of artists are out of their comfort zone in the studio JoeTheEngineer: especially now that hip hop has lost its hunger StumpyPete1975: lost its hunger? JoeTheEngineer: yeah, you know, doesn’t have the urgency that it once did JoeTheEngineer: of course, thats not really in the past 5 years

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